"Fatal shooting at Ralph J. Rangel Houses appears to be within guidelines."

Does anyone still want these buildings in their backyard???

I am very curious as to how the community would go about getting rid of the projects? I would love to see a more healthy community take shape in Harlem and I agree that the projects foster negativity and passivity. It has been an eye-opener living in Harlem and yet I am also drawn to it's beauty. I live on a very nice block (123 between F Douglas and Adam Clayton) and the only thing marring this block are the projects between
123 and 124 on Adam clayton and that two story monstrosity that wraps around on 124.
What does the city do with these properties and with these people??

You do realize that you're talking about people, not an infestation to be gotten rid of-right?

Oh 4:26 would you just stuff it. Really, it's a joke that people expect the right to entitlement to public housing in the most expensive city in America. Why are they immune to what regular working people are not? Faced with the possibility of getting priced out of Manhattan?

Please don't try to emotionalize the issue. God forbid Manhattan project dwellers be forced to suffer the plight of living in Yonkers and commuting to Manhattan, LIKE LOTS OF WORKING PEOPLE DO. God forbid public housing dwellers be forced to be responsible and make compromises like working folks.

It's great, right now the public housing dwellers have no incentive to better their lot in life, and all the incentive to stay there, and they do, for 10, 15, 20, 25+ years.

It's a lose lose in truth.

Growing up I had several friends who lived in the projects described above. All of their families worked, and their apartements were clean and well kept. At least one of them went on to college. I don't really understand why people are so eager to believe in the stereotype that all people who live in projects are living off the system and not trying to make a better place for themselves and their family in this world. Considering how many live in the projects compared to how many you might see hanging out, I would think it safe to assume that not everyone who lives in the projects are a bunch of aimless derelicts. Plus, as far as I know it's not a crime, yet, to be poor in this city. Maybe some of you should be thankful for what you have in comparison, instead of looking down your nose at those not as fortunate.
Also, if you're so eager to have them leave because they make less money, why don't you leave since you probably have a better chance of affording a different area? Really, give me a break.

I don't think that you are living in the real world. Take a look at any real estate blog on the net.....no one wants the projects near them. If they are so wonderful, why don't you fill out an application to get an apartment in one of them?

I have a co-worker who was from the projects and graduated college. She will be the first one to tell you of the project mentality of the people and how she herself would never buy in Harlem because of the proximity of the projects to the new condos and co-ops.

In fact alot of the people I know who grew up in Harlem have a negative view of the projects.

When the front of my building was destroyed one night, the doorman who grew up in Harlem said - "ya'll are trying to make this place something that it is not. you know that the projects are right down the street!"

9:25, you're part of the problem (and a joke).

You 100% avoid the question. Why are project dwellers immune to reality and life in Manhattan? Non-projet dwellers have to contend with being priced out of Manhattan. That does not exist for project dwellers.

Project defenders always SKIP over this point. I've never heard of a project dweller being priced out of Manhattan. It does not happen. On a Monthly basis I know of non-project dwellers being priced out of Manhattan, we all know this.

I know lots of people forced to be fiscally responsible and move to lower cost places. They can't afford to live in Manhattan any longer. This never happens to project dwellers, they enjoy a subsidizes immunization from the reality we all live.

I have friends from the projects, they went to Ivy League schools and make low six figure money, own condos, etc. Yet their family and friends, many are still in the projects. I know a woman who's a teacher, Ivy Educated and from the projects, who can't afford to live in Harlem, got priced out and lives in Jersey and commutes. Her mother? Safe secured Harlem project dweller, goes to Atlantic City to gamble twice a month, living the life with no concern of being priced out of Manhattan.

Getridoftheprojects is 100% right. There is not entitlement to public housing in a specific location. If you need public housing, perhaps you might have to do what non-project dwellers ALL THE TIME have to do, move out of the expensive City and to lower cost places.

Oh, I forgot, that the project dwellers can't do...and for what reason?....

Project dwellers are immunitized from being priced out of Manhattan. The possibility, notion, and concept of that DOES NOT EXIST for them. Project dwellers have more incentive to not improve their their lot in life and retain $300, etc. rent on the most expensive land in America.

Just admit it, the system is F'ed up.

This is obviously a very passionate subject. I can attest that many long time black Harlem residents that I am friendly with on my block deplore the overall mentality that plagues some (not all) of the people who live in housing projects. In fact, I have heard some of the most pointed and critical words come out of the mouths of my black Harlem neighbors about the project culture. Also, describing non-working people as "less fortunate" is insulting. My parents made me go to work when I was 14 and I have worked ever since. That work-ethic was not a product of being fortunate or unfortunate-simply from being taught to contribute to society.
I maintain that receiving handouts as a means to an end is counter-intuitive and does not create self-actualized lives. I know that there are human beings living in that two story horror on 124 between Fred Douglas and Adam Clayton but the reality of that building is that it should be razed. I don't profess to have any answers about where or how to move the occupants into other housing but the building itself and the way it is maintained by the occupants is insulting to everyone in Harlem.

Sigh. I never said that those who don't work are less fortunate. I said that instead of looking down on people who work but have less money you should consider yourselves fortunate. I am in no way wealthy, but I definitely make more than the average income of $24,000 a year that is standard for my neighborhood. I also have a nice apartment in a nice building that is maintained by a responsible landlord. I consider myself fortunate to have that, since a lot of people in this world can't come close to saying that.
Also, let's be honest-if 10 years from now after you've made a home for yourself do you really think you would be fine with someone telling you to pick up and leave because someone with more money could fill your space? I think not.
I've lived in Harlem all of my life and I have more horror stories about the things that go on than you can imagine. But I also have the ability to acknowledge that not everyone can be painted with the same brush and that there are people working and trying to make it in this world in a responsible way. I don't really see how it's a problem to acknowledge that, unless it weakens your argument.
Getridoftheprojects, I never said that the projects are so wonderful, but I also know that there are people living there who work and raise families and aren't the monsters you make them out to be. If you know someone who grew up in the projects and became successful, then why not include that information in your comments? I don't think you've ever written anything positive about Harlem in all the time I've been reading this blog. Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that things aren't black and white? Not everyone who lives in the projects is bad just like not everyone who lives in them is good. That's reality as well. Why do you have a problem with that reality?
I thought this was a blog where there could be intelligent back and forth, and discuss the good as well as the bad. I guess I was wrong.

anonymous at 1:49, right on. Like you, I'm disappointed by many commentators' failure to respect this forum and each other. Instead, we're plagued by the polarizing arguments of people who see this extraordinarily diverse world in black and white. I would ask these posters whether they are aware that race and ethnicity are not identical; whether they know that racial and economic identity are not inextricably linked; whether they are capable of respecting an opinion regardless of the perceived identity of the person who expresses it (which, interestingly, is impossible to perceive accurately if the discussion occurs in cyberspace.) Oddly, the majority of the blogs discussing Harlem share this depressing characteristic, whereas the actual neighborhood dynamic couldn't be more different from the one playing out online. I would suggest that those who have negative views to express gather the courage to do so in person. The anonymity of the online forum is deceptive anyway...
But, 1:49, please don't give up on this blog yet...there are plenty of readers who are interested in what you have to say and will respect your opinion regardless of their personal viewpoint. Intelligent discussion can and does happen here, we just sometimes have to sift through piles of nonsense to find it.

1:49, you're also part of the problem. You said, "Also, let's be honest-if 10 years from now after you've made a home for yourself do you really think you would be fine with someone telling you to pick up and leave because someone with more money could fill your space? I think not.".

_

No but that's life, that's reality everyone has to deal with EXCEPT project dwellers. Time does not equal entitlement, especially on the taxpayer's dime, are you kidding me? It's 2007, no one with a job no matter how long you've worked at that job can assume they will have that job next year, in 5 years, in 10 years. That's reality. You're not entitled to lifetime employment with the company that hires you.

Guess what, you're not entitled to lifetime government subsidized housing in the most expensive city in America, does this shock you? Yup, you're the problem, you are unwilling to see that everything changes including affordablity. There are Americans that did everything right, own homes, etc. however have been forced to move after 30 and 40 years because they cannot afford today's tax assessment on their homes. That's life (for everyone except the project dwellers).

Project dwellers are immune to change. Why? Why don't they have to behave like non-project dwellers? Why do they get to enjoy secured in place housing at my expense in the most expensive city in America?

Why is it so crazy to say, "If you earn $24,000 / year, maybe, just maybe Manhattan is not for you". These are the issues you cannot speak to. You emotionalize matters, etc. and so forth. Anyone is better off making $18,000/year in parts of Virginia, Ohio, the Carolina, the South, etc. than making $24,000 in Manhattan. But they stay in Manhattan, don't they, expecting entitlement with no prospects going forward of ever making an income to afford Manhattan independent of that PROJECT LIFE.

But you? You don't want project dwellers to have to be fiscally responsible like the non-project dwellers. Hence thanks to avoidance like yours, "Project Mentality" is a way of life for most of the project dwellers. Those projects are filled with generational poverty on a NYC standard.

If you took all the dwellers in all the projects and scattered them across the South and MidWest, they would all be better off. The would have space, a better quality of life, a chance for generational ghetto life to not take root, etc. But no, your posture insures a ghetto existence. You want to preserve their right to be stupid. That's right, it's stupid to live in Manhattan when you have no prospects of making the money it takes to live in Manhattan independent of welfare, foodstamps, & public housing.

The Sacred Cows of America? Project Dwellers. Never make them responsible, entitle them to the right to dwell in the most expensive city in America (at our expense). It's forbidden that you suggest they move for their own benefit to Yonkers or the Carolinas. Project dwellers have got it made as their housing, food, and medical care? Well you and I pay for it, I would not move either.