>Since moving to Harlem in 2004, Nobu has wanted to bring more businesses to the nabe. He and Danny kicked around a number of ideas before settling on a wine shop eight months ago.
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>Now this is funny. So am I supposed to believe after 2+ years of racking (no wine pun intended) their collective brains their solution to bringing more business to the nabe is to set up a business that's spot on the same niche business a couple blocks away, HV? The product of 2+ years of thought is the same as down the street? Furthermore how is this bringing "new" business to the nabe? To believe and accept that one would have to buy into the thought that The Winery will bring business to the nabe that Harlem Vintage does not or cannot. How many people are there in Manhattan that can now bring business to the nabe because The Winery is now there whereas before those people would not bring business to the nabe? Talk about some transparent BS, please respect the nabe, don't take us for fools, be direct and forward with your agenda and objective and I might give you my business, you might be a solution to a problem aferall as I agree, Harlem Vintage is pricey.

>Since then, they have have worked tirelessly to bring the shop to fruition, with Nobu even designing the decor himself.
_

SFW? I've worked tirelessly as well for the money I may or may not spend there.

>Nobu and Danny acknowledge that Harlem Vintage is just a few blocks up the street,

Wow! How magnanimous of them!

>but they strongly feel that there is room enough for two similar and successful businesses in West Harlem.

I doubt it.

>Plus, the two have carved out what they see as a winning strategy for The Winery.

I see the strategy too, locate closer toward more gentrified SoHa and directly across the street from the soon to be open Soha118 and New Yorkers being New Yorkers will walk to the closer wine shop. Location, location, location. Does not take a Harvard MBA to figure that one out. It's called "Cut & Siphon" street traffic. It's cold, it's raining, it's late, it's.....why walk down to HV when The Winery is closer?

>The idea behind the shop is to bring value wines to the consumer.

I was in there on Saturday, I saw NO "value wines". I saw lots of $14.99 inventory, on hand written cards. "Value Wines" are what's stocked at Trader Joe's sans $2 buck Chuck.

Can we have 3 examples of "Value Wines" please? Bottle & Price?

I can't stand utter and total BS. Let's be honest, Harlem Vintage sells heavily on "the retail experience", hence the design and decor and promotional events surrounding the place. Their prices are the highest pretty much in NYC. I buy a lot of wine, know wine on the retail side.

I stopped buying wine at HV because I got sick and tired of Jai Jai (one of the owners) or her employees telling me about wine. Their tactic is called, "hand boutique sales". If you know wine you don't want sales people guiding you. Personally I agree, Harlem Vintage can use some competition because they do have an air of their sh#% don't stink, and it does from time to time. I also don't give a rat's ass about "feel" and "atmosphere" at the retail level. I care about value, not that the Winery offers that, I sure in the hell did not see it on Saturday.

Great wine shops have their wines out, not "presented". There is a difference. Trader Joe's has their wines out, from the looks of it The Winery had their wines "presented".

You know Harlem Vintage is a rip off when you see all that open floor space that could be used to store inventory, instead they use that floor for preentations and hosting events, etc. A great wine shop does not have the open space you see at Harlem Vintage.

By my assessment WV and The Winery, neither offers good value. This may shock you but there are lots of ghetto wineshops that blow them both out of the water. One Example, The wineshop on 135th and 7th, to the right of Popeye's, across 135th from the International House of Pancakes, great selection, great value, etc.

HV prices are BS and The Winery's commentary is full of S. HV and The Winery will never get along. The Winery and their "Cut and Siphon" strategy will always be a thorn in the side of HV. Let the war begin, who knows maybe the consumer will win.

I am still waiting for 3 examples of "Value Wines" The Winery? Any time you want to post some, let us know.

No one will win.. one of them will close and it will take a long time for another non ghetto tenant to come into the space.

...Something other than a store like Jamaican and Southern Cousine on 116th street. I still have yet to figure out what the hell a Cousine is...

1400 on 5th has had empty retail spaces for quite some time now , although they are sitting right next to a thousand projects...still it will take some time for a new upscale tenant to fill one of those wine shops when one of them closes. You can walk up that avenue approximately on 119th street and see the renovated buildings that have empty retail space that has been sitting there for many months...

People have to get smarter when choosing to open a business up here in Harlem.. Having 2 upscale wine shops within walking distance is not smart and neither is having a Caviar bar that is in walking distance to a thousand projects.

Someone needs to open a non-ghetto nail salon. Someplace where you pay a little more but it's clean, stylish, and maybe uses organic polishes, removers, etc. It would attract the new residents and the old residents together, I'm sure of it. I'm tired of going downtown for a pedicure.

Someone needs to open a non-ghetto nail salon. Someplace where you pay a little more but it's clean, stylish, and maybe uses organic polishes, removers, etc. It would attract the new residents and the old residents together, I'm sure of it. I'm tired of going downtown for a pedicure.

Hey, They've already got a great review on Yelp.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/lxHFVi4iZZRuNtbVW-ysQQ

Then the person, this Ameena G? A member since January of '07 but has managed to write 200 reviews for Yelp? One of a business next door to The Winery in fact, etc.
http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=IAXKRJJNmJx8p8a25r7dXg

How many days have their been thus far in '07? And this person has published 200 reviews of businesses on Yelp over this stretch of time?

Any chance Ameena G. is in the business of saying glowing things about business and publishing them on Yelp? Wonder if The Winery paid Ameena G.

You guys need to give Jai and Eric some slack for opening up an upscale winery at Harlem Vintage. I happened to know Eric Woods very well and he came up with a excellent idea. I enjoy drinking wine and no one likes to shop at a ghetto winery store just around the corner. Although, the wines can be pricey and the variety of their selection is ok where in Harlem are you going to get the She She customer service and the Saturday mixer-wine tasting events ---- not at a ghetto wine shop around the corner. You wine critics out there need to stop hatin'.

Ok this new wine shop called winery is way too pricey for me. If you walk around and check out their selection every bottle of wine is $15.00 dollars. Also, if you check out their wine selections I have never heard of them. Harlem Vintage is way better and besides its a new wine shop so they have alot to learn about the business. I recall initially not liking Harlem Vintage's wine selection and finding it pricey as well when they first opened up. Of later, they worked out the kinks and reshuffled their wine selection and things look a lot better. So the new winery shop have a lot to learn. The neighborhood could appreciate having them both.

Yow, Mside, why the bitterness toward the Winery?

sanguinary,

Because they are being blatantly disingenuous. Is that not sufficient grounds to rip them a new asshole? I directly answered your question, now can you answer mine?

"Since moving to Harlem in 2004, Nobu has wanted to bring more businesses to the nabe. He and Danny kicked around a number of ideas before settling on a wine shop eight months ago"

sanguinary, do you believe this above is a statement of integrity? please answer that. is there anyone out there that believes these two men spent 2+ years brainstorming, thinking of business ideas, etc. and then had a an "I got it" momement and come up with a wine shop?

really, 2+ years of contemplation, and the product of this long drawn out thought by two men COINCIDETALLY is the exact same thing of what's about 100 feet down the street? This is the great answer on how to bring more business to the nabe?

sanguinary I would like you to answer that question. my opinion is that's total and complete BS, but you might believe it's an authentic sentiment, please tell us your opinion.

I don't think anyone will dispute this is utter, total, and complete BS. When you're a new business in the nabe, be authentic, be genuine, especially if you want me to believe in your opinion on good wine.

The Winery could have said, "we saw the success of Harlem Vintage however felt they were a bit pricey for much of the market, thought we might be able to serve wine consumers that are not looking to spend $50 on a bottle of wine and are looking to serve that market".

But what makes The Winery not credible is their total, blatant BS as if we in the nabe are fools. How far does that BS credibility reach, you tell me?

That's a serious question and the problem when you spew total disingenuous BS. No one's going to dispute The Winery is stating disingenuous BS, that's obvious and clear. The question is how far it extends....

FWIW, I agree that it's total BS, but aren't most press statements like this usually total BS?

Mside,

I agree that the rationale seems at the least to be very disingenuous. Restaurants and other services are much more in need in our neighborhood.

That said, most of the comments seem to center on the word “value,” but I am unclear as to how it’s being used. Does value mean an absolute dollar price ceiling or does value mean price paid versus what is received or does value mean price charged versus prices charged other places? To me, the second definition is the only true meaning of value: am I getting something that could or should cost more money. In this regard, I believe that both The Winery and Harlem Vintage do a good job.

As for the first definition, that is very personal and therefore will never be universally accepted. As for the third, that is a function of so many other things. It would be naïve to believe that either store would be able to match the prices of the larger, more established stores downtown. Both are significantly smaller and I am sure aren’t able to buy wines in the same quantities, so they may have to charge more just to cover their costs. Also, I am sure their landlords are reading the same articles about Harlem real estate that we are. From what I’ve heard, the retail rents in Harlem are much higher on a per square foot basis than comparable places downtown. I am sure this also lends itself to a dollar or two extra in the prices they charge.

While both stores have their shortcomings and it remains to be seen if both will survive, I think they both provide value.

I am a big fan of Harlem Vintage and i think the venom pointed in there direcition is unfair. They came to the nabe when there was no retail outside of chicken & fish shops and ghetto liquor stores. Believe when they came to the neighborhood it was a breath of fresh air and still is

As for comments regarding their price would you prefer buying your wine downtown and carrying it on the subway home or buying over the internet and hoping the wine is not broken or corked?

Have you considered that the cost of doing business in Harlem may be a bit higher (theft, insurance, wages to get a wine knowledgeable person uptown, etc.). So while prices may be a tad higher i would bet that the increased costs far offset any premium.

Bottom line HV brightens the neighborhood and have since its inception

The winery is terrible! 2 years and the only name you could come up with is "the winery"? how can we depend on that type of creativty to bring anything new and fresh. It is cramped, the prices are higher than HV and Nobu and the other the guy that works there know nothing about wine. What were they thinking?

Nobu and The Winery are BAD NEWS! They cannot be trusted. I just heard from a friend that the reason that Harlem Vintage petitioned against their opening is that NOBU enlisted HV's help in researching the market. He even promised to open far uptown and away from HV. They actually helped him and the cut throat opens up 3 blocks away. That's not the type of guy i want to do business with!

i suspect johnny b, kim cook and karan are all the same person. gigs up phantom posters.

While I won't go so far as to say that Nobu is a bad person, I did hear the same story as Kim Cook a few months ago.

Not to go into details, I too heard the same story as is being repeated here, that Nobu, etc. spoke with Harlem Vintage before opening, and it was discussed that Nobu would be opening his "Winery" @ 135th etc. or the like.

To be specific and frank, Nobu "buddied up" to HV on the idea he would be opening his wine shop around 135th or upwards on the same street, then turned around and changed up AFTER speaking with HV.

In sum, Nobu is a piece of shit.

Hatlem Fur, I could be 100% wron, I could be 100% on target. However it merits investigation. Specifically,

1). Did "The Winery" and or Nobu discuss being in the wine business in Harlem at any point?

2). Did Nobu represent himself to HV as interested for the purposes of opening much further Uptown.

From what I hear, Nobu fucked HV plain and simple. This is something that's black and white, talk to the owners of HV and ask them.

It matters from a stand point of integrity. I suspect The Winery is full of shit and a bunch of lying fucks. I just would like to have them painted into a corner and forced to be honest.

I'm all for good clean competition, but that's not what this is about. I want to know the measure & extent of the bullshit, lies, and deceit of the Winery.

I say investigate this for the sake of how pioneers of gentrification (HV) can be targeted by those seeking to gain off their backs (The Winery).

My understanding is the Winery lied and bullshited the owners of HV on the font end extracting info on the basis of them opening up much further Uptown. Did that happen?

Did Nobu and or any other owners of principals of the Winery speak with HV about retail wine selling in Harlem well before the Winery opened?

How about a follow up interview with The Winery? No Holds Barred, honest and frank?

I went to the winery this weekend thinging that i was visiting a black owned establishment. They told me that they were then I mentioned to a friend that there was a new black owned wine store. I was told that the store was indeed not black owned. Obviously harlem is very diverse and anyone has a right to open a business but to market yourself as black owned when you are not to extract false good will is deplorable

I am so sick and tired of people trying to turn Harlem into lower Manhattan. Most new residents have no appreciation for the culture and history of this neighborhood. Harlemites are proud people who don't look south for their ideas and views. We pioneered music and fashion with the first harlem ren. and we can do it again. Stop comparing ourselves to soho, the village and midtown. We need a unique vision for harlem that embraces its history not a mirror image of the rest of manhattan

Harlem is still on the island of Manhattan and should not be treated like a separate country with it's own culture and laws. This is the problem that Harlem has taken so long to progress. People think that they are entitled to keep Harlem separate from the rest of Manhattan when in fact, the neighborhood is on the same island.

Some of you on this blog are walking contradictions. One side of your face you talk about the importance of having a place be Black owned and the next side you talk of gentrification. On one hand you talk about the "ghetto fish shops" and nail salons. You can't have it both ways' It's ther you want to live in Soho and get all the ammenities you can get or you deal with the changing dynamics of Harlem and that includes competition. You cannot be for gentrification and against good old fashion capitalist competition. Most of you probably do not know Nobo or Danny, so why make disparaging comments about them.

By the way, I stopped going to Harlem Vintage a year before the Winery opened. Why? Because the owners are bourgie (sp?)and look down on folks if they don't walk around like they have a million bucks. I bought a bottle of wine in there that was obviously very acidic when I opened it. I took it back to return and let the owner Kim taste it and she told me nothing was wrong with the wine. well hello luv, I am the customer and if I say the wine tastes like shit (it did), you don't argue with me. That type of customer service is unwelcomed. I am a Black man who makes a pretty decent salary and I could care less if you are Black onwed if you treat Black people or any customers like shit. Treat customers with respect nd so far that's what I've gotten from the Winery.

I found this post while researching for a documentary we are working on about Black owned wineries. It is interesting to read some of your comments regarding establishments that sell the wines. The wine consumption in the USA has been generaly based on income and so forth. For the past ten years, there has been a raise in wine consumption in the US and also following an increase in wine consumption/ownership in the African American community. Anyways, if anyone knows any newly forming black owned wineires, please send me an email to am@pastforwardfilms.com. Thank you.

this thread is one of the all time silliest i've read in a long time.

can't you guys get a life?

silly wine business owners don't realize that the addition of another wine
shop in same area is only going to create *more* business for both.

market research on opening a wine business in that area isn't all that confidential or take a genius to realize it's probably a good area.

puhleeze