(1) No person shall make, or cause or allow to be made, unreasonable noise in any park so as to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or harm. Unreasonable noise means any excessive or unusually loud sound that disturbs the peace, comfort or repose of a reasonable person of normal sensitivity or injures or endangers the health or safety of a reasonable person of normal sensitivity, or which causes injury to plant or animal life, or damage to property or business.

(2) No person shall play or operate any sound reproduction device, as defined in §1-02 of these Rules, in any park without a permit from the Department of Parks & Recreation and any other City agency or agencies with pertinent jurisdiction. This paragraph (2) shall not apply to the regular and customary use of portable radios, record players, compact disc players, or television receivers, or tape recorders played or operated in full accordance with these Rules so as not unreasonably to disturb other persons in their permitted uses of the park, except that in areas designated by the Commissioner as "quiet zones," such regular and customary use of sound reproduction devices shall be prohibited. Signs shall be posted in all quiet zones advising the public of such prohibition. Use of radios and other sound reproduction devices listened to solely by headphones or earphones, and inaudible to others, is permitted in all areas of the parks.

Maybe the noise will wake up the project people so that they can go out and be productive instead of all the mass shootings going on in the area!

Hey getridoftheprojects - don't condescend. You must not live in the Mount Morris Park part of Harlem or you would know that there are no projects there. The Mount Morris Park area is beautiful and attracts wonderful people to live and work there.

The people who come to Marcus Garvey Park each Saturday and drum for 9 hours straight do not live in the area - they travel from the Bronx and north Manhattan. They are not residents of the Mount Morris Park area - yet the residents have to endure their noise every weekend.

I agree with the first poster - now that the new noise laws are in effect, it's time to start enforcing them. These people have been asked to limit their drumming before and to move to less-residential parts of that park. They selfishly ignored those requests and insist on assaulting the park users and neighboring residents with their banging and clanging. Police and the DEP need to start issuing citations and fines to these people this coming Saturday.

Of course you new settlers to Harlem don't want the drums or any noise to disturb you. Fuck you. This is Harlem. What right do you have to move here and dictate how people live? You arrogant bastards have a lot of nerve. part of the traditions and culture of Harlem is the drumming. fuck you and move if you don't like it. There will be severe backlash against you new comers who complain about noise in Harlem. Adapt or perish you fucks. Stay indoors and blast Morrisey! You chose to live here in your sheet rock thin ass walls-put a rug on it and deal with it. Where whites go- in history or now-they just can't leave shit alone , adapt and adjust-they just have to change shit. What will all the gawking tourists on those buseds look at. You moving to Harlem will crush the tourist biz. What self respecting European want to see another white person -in Harlem. I guess you melanin challenged creeps want to disgust the rest of us and start tanning yourself(killing yourself0 in Marcus Garvey Park (not Mt. Morris Park dicks (since 1973)like you do all over Central Park. At least with the new buildings you can do that shit on your roofs(oh I'm sorry-decks)May the mighty pigeons of Harlem shit on your back while you sun. May the ultraviolet gods shine bright on your brittle skin. May your hyper sensitive ears burst with good Harlem sounds-ice cream trucks, loud hip hop, gun shots, tire screeching and police sirens. Bleed from your ears and stp bitching. Be thankful for the cheap property you got bitches.

Who knew some drummers could spark such passionate responses. Wow!!!

Why does "drum defender" assume that the original residents want to hear drumming for nine hours a day? I bet longtime local renters ALSO would like some peace and quiet. It's too bad that no one pays attention to noise pollution until it offends the upper classes, but better late than never.

drum defender must be from the projects where he doesn't have to get up early in the morning and can take all that racket

drum defender must be from the projects where he doesn't have to get up early in the morning and can take all that racket. GET RID OF THE PROJECTS

Enough with the projects already! This is not the place to "get rid of the projects." Spam the people who can help you.

-What "Peaceful Saturday" doesn't realize is that Harlem wasn't always black. The black diaspora uptown only began in earnest in the early 20th Century, and before that, the neighborhood was predominantly Italian and Irish. My Great-Grandfather emigrated from England in the 1880's and settled in Harlem (119th/Park). If you're using history as some kind of "proof of ownership", then you're out of luck.

-It also doesn't allow you to be above the law. If the noise ordinances are being violated, then don't scream and cry when its enforced.

Back in Harlem - I think you're referring to "drum defender" and his post.

-Right; sorry about that.

re "Berry" and his comment re other "longtime local residents" of Harlem not liking the noise... there could possibly only be 1 building that is bothered by the "noise" and that is 2002 Fifth; my wife and i who've owned our place near Marcus Garvey park for many years have always really liked and appreciated the drum circle. funny thing is, we never considered it as "noise" which makes this issue very disappointing to us. in many traditions, the drum represents a way for many different cultures to speak to each other, which is why you see drummers from all over the world joining in; there's a great spiritual connection as well. for african culture it holds especially great meaning in black american life, in that during slavery when reading and writing was forbidden it was the only form of communication for slaves. our vote is that they stay.

Longtime, you comment was addressed to the wrong person. You should have addressed it Harlem Resident. The names are under the comments, not above the comments.

Longtime, your comment was addressed to the wrong person. You should have addressed it Harlem Resident. The names are under the comments, not above the comments.

Hey Back In Harlem-

Do you face the park? If so, let everyone know where you live and then go out to the drummers and ask them to come drum in front of your house all day. Let the drums speak to each other in front of your home. It's not a noise issue to you because they're not in front of your home. Does it matter that it effects one building more than the others? What if they played right next to the little league field on Saturday. Would that be rude to all the families and kids playing little league? Damn straight it would be.

Listen up, they don't play in front of my house, but if they did, I'd be pretty pissed. This isn't a race issue and this isn't a cultural issue. If all they cared about was playing their drums, then move to the inside of the park. You won't bother a single person and you could play all day long.

Someone above said that the drummers play in front of a building that use to be an empty lot. So obviously, they choose that spot because they knew playing in front of people's homes (black or white) was rude. But now there is a building there and they have to deal with that fact.

Unless they are willing to compromise (limit the time, rotate around the park each week or sit in the middle), eventually enough people will complain to the right people and the drummers will be gone.

longtime-the only thing i'll say to your comment is that it's different when it's directly in front of your building. i think if you watch the videos above you'll see that a 1/2 a block away, you can barely hear them, and it's totally tolerable for the full 8 hours. but they are only in front of one building, and that seems to be the building that's complaining. not because they are insensitive new comers, but because it's the loudest and most imposing right there. when the drummers were in front of a different building, that building complained, and the drummers moved. this isnt actually a new issue. it's just re emerged since the building that was an empty lot now has humans in it--and it's a little much to expect them to live with it every weekend for 8 hours.

Amen, Larry. Some posters keep talking about the cultural importance and the history and all of the other things that just don't matter here. Asking them to move to the interior of the park or the southeast corner (where nobody lives) has no effect at all on the culture or the history.

Fine - enjoy and even relish in the culture and the history. Just don't do it in front of my house, where I can't read a book, watch TV or do anything within my own home because of how loud it is.

Of course, people keep talking about it like the drumming is going away completely because they might suspect that the drummers won't be reasonable and won't compromise. I hope that's not the case, but it sure wouldn't surprise me either (after all, they keep drumming in that location even after people moved in across the street, so they clearly don't have any courtesy). And if they don't compromise, I'm sure that they will be going away for good. But since that's not in the best interests of the community (and that's not what I'd prefer to see either), I hope somebody convinces them otherwise.

Larry:

-Your comments are for "Longtime Harlem resident", not myself. The signature is under the comments, not above them (if you'll notice, I made the same mistake on this very string).

-Speaking of the moniker "Longtime Harlem resident"; what is that supposed to insinuate exactly? Are you saying that since you've been here for a while that you know what's good for all of us, or are you giving us a subtle racist nudge?

re "Back in Harlem's" comment regarding my chosen title of "Longtime Harlem resident"... the 1 reason i used this handle was because an earlier poster made the statement that even "longtime" harlem residents might not want the drummers where they are. i simply wanted them to know that my answer was coming from a longtime resident. that's all... don't be so defensive and quick to regard everything that doesn't go in your favor as some sort of "racism". thanks

To drum defender -
Right on baby!!!!!!!!! Your words read hard and true.
Truth to power baby. You ain't alone.
j

This IS this place to discuss getting rid of the projects... This site is supposed to show all the wonderful things that are going up in Harlem, but no matter how many good things are happening up here, things will never truly raise up to the Manhattan standard unless these M A S S I V E projects are destroyed..... and while we are destroying these projects that are not helping anyone - if someone has an idea to get the police officers to start ticketing all these church people who think that it is ok to double park any place they feel like and not get ticketed - and because there are 27 churches on every block here, that is A L O T of cars.... when I asked a police officer about this, they said - " well, this IS Harlem"

Is Harlem another country???? or is it simply another neighborhood in Manhattan and thus should conform to the same rules as every other neighborhood.

Wow! Passion overflows onto keyboards all over Harlem. Hey one good thing the "new Settlers" bring to Harlem-WIFI! Hey settlers-stop locking up your signals -let it seep () and rise into the Harlem air- like the DRUMMING into your bodies!

My first post is what EVERY LONG TIME HARLEM RESIDENT THINKS- you can do the typical barbershop/hair salon research or the bodega/street corner eavesdropping-its the same talk-Spanish, Black and even those whites(yes whites were here b4 us and the native Americans were here b4 that-so fucking what "Back in Harlem-great you have a family history documented-some of our enslaved African ancestors tried to hold on to their traditions & history but for some reason it was difficult-(oh I remember why- the kidnapping, rape, break up, selling and forced free labor of the Black family during slavery) But hey, we might be related by ownership(my English slave name) Welcome back to Harlem. After 30 years on 119th street your ancestor probably said ‘What the hell is going on here.” with the influx of blacks from mid Manhattan (50’s) and lower Manhattan. After whites pushed long time black New Yorkers out from lower Manhattan and then mid Manhattan, they found cheap rent in Harlem because they underestimated the number of white moving uptown. Once we got here we made it hot! Do you think people would want to come to Harlem if there were no blacks? Fuck no! It would have been an extension of 96th street-bland.

With the black New Yorkers, West Indian and blacks from the south we made Harlem hot. During the lean years when they threw 8 out 10 bus depots past 96th street(asthma-cough!) white owned stores with white workers( Adam Clayton Powell baby) and all other problems Harlem faced, Harlemites stuck it out-with no help from the city. Italians held down the eastside-talk to the elders-how the Italians ran them out of Jefferson Park in the old trolley days. To this day they come back to their old neighborhood and say ”what the fuck!” and sit in their old club house during their festival trying to understand what reggaeton is-but give them credit for not selling their brownstones to blacks and Puerto Ricans on Pleasant Avenue but renting them out and now own nice properties. If many of our elders weren’t hoodwinked out of their properties, maybe we would have more black ownership in Harlem. But if you guys keep bringing in Amber (“But I love her ma!” and Todd- But I love him, dad”) moving in then breaking up and leaving them here, we would have a few more apartments. Put your name on the lease black people and don’t say} I’m leaving! Make Amber and Todd leave!” Same thing goes you flamboyant cats-and the two spirit sisters - make Serge ( he might take the Frank Lloyd Wright Robie chair but scale down and go to Ikea) and Susan ( let her take the "The L Word "1st and second season DVD set-you can download them now Love is love but damn take your old loves with you.

Now for those new settlers who moved into places that ere just useless empty lots-} we’re not displacing anyone”. They were empty lots because the white owners of these lots refuse to sell their property-even to the city and took their yearly loss and wrote it off. Many blacks tried to buy these properties to develop and were blocked from doing so. There will be those who missed the brownstone boat in the 60’s-80’s –you know who you are” Damn what was I doing when they were $10,000?’But the bottom line is that these properties were difficult for Harlem residents to get-try getting a loan as a long time Harlem resident-you got to give a DNA sample to get a free pen. Now there are more banks than schools. They are here to wait for the few elders that didn’t sell their property to die, to scoop up those properties that may fall into bankruptcy because the owners can’t get a loan from the 15 banks in Harlem. But the new settlers have no problem getting a loan if needed. Most of these banks made their money during slavery- Chase-from the Federal Leather Manufacturers' National Bank of New York Bank of America from Fleet, Wachovia- from the Bank of Charleston, S.C and others as well as insurance companies. Now they show up in Harlem to greet the descendant of slave owners who have come to Harlem. to live!

What the fuck does this have to do with the drummers circle in Marcus Garvey Park!? I’ll get to that eventually. But first-the projects!

This should be the forum to discuss it –But why get rid of the projects? Hmm let’s see-they are predominately filled with Blacks Latinos and a few white drug addicts who pass for Spanish. Hey It would be a tough sell for us developers to sell a 1.5 million condo across the street from the projects (see Fifth on the Park, the Kalahari etc. But they are selling-why? Because the developers are assuring the new settlers that new Harlem is coming (see the Fifth on the Park site) and will change the area. So stick it out newcomers things are a changing’. Imagine looking out your 1.2 million dollar condo and seeing a sea of white t shirts coming from the Rucker game on Adam Clayton Powell Jr. Blvd.? Gee willikers! Honey! There are large crowds of young black and Latino kids walking up the boulevard! Call 311 –use the noise pollution complaint then call 911 and say they are fighting. Don’t forget to videotape, hon! And so it begins. Notice the new settlers peer out of their window looking down at the natives (you guys do that a lot) thinking –the agent at Cochran said things would change for the better once the noise ordinance and the increase policing happens. I don’t know if I can take another summer in Harlem- I’m going to Fire Island for the summer with Hans. The projects are a community within itself, no I do not live in one but understand that they maybe the last bastions of culture Harlem will have. Trump his rumored to have bought Wagner and Lincoln projects (all along the water. Ever notice the ferry that goes up to Yankee Stadium-so that those Yankee fans who wish to avoid the natives can arrive at the stadium in safety and style. The wholesale evictions are happening all over Harlem especially in public housing-slumlords are pressuring people to really leave or pay more-young and old. Those that are left will probably be offered a few thousand to leave. The projects that are physically sound will be converted to condos. So for get rid of the projects-of course the new settlers want the project gone. It is one place they dare not stroll carelessly in and explore (you know what happens when they start exploring) and it frustrates them to hell. Save the fucking projects those are our soldiers in there our family our line of defense the few tall buildings that will look down on some of the new condos going up. Target practice for the kids-Hey try to hit that dude burning himself on his deck! That is why they are harassing all the black churches to sell them air rights so they can build taller than the projects. (You see get rid of the project complain about the church people? He is soulless so black churches remind him of this. Unless he is able to convert, assimilate (Borg asshole) or destroy it.) Its real. The psyche of the white man is to build high enough to get a superior position on the existing residents or the place they are infesting/invading. Churches stand strong! Don’t repeat history. Buy those dinners in the basement Harlemites-the churches are struggling. 5 million is a lot to turn down to move when times are tough and congregations are low. Newcomers- you can’t buy your way into heaven!

So the projects stand tall casting a shadow on the incoming swarm compromising the wars strategy. Mount Morris-damn you settlers got me saying it!-Marcus Garvey Park is one of the oldest parks high on a hill good to see all around Harlem (Revolutionary war times and fire times)You settlers are not that adventurous to explore the top of the park yet ( whites really like climbing shit-got to get to the top! Will you convert the park to a rock climbing park?) Keep training black men and defend that park! There should be ten more men this Sunday wanting to train in the park-spread the word! 2002 Fifth Ave! indoor garage, gym-nice. High traffic area-library and the park!!! Almost like Gramercy. I bet you motherfuckers want to lock up the park and get a key-not happening Try if you will but it will be a mistake. Just learn to get along and enjoy the history and beauty that is Harlem. Don’t change it to gramercy of UES or UWS it not that. Don’t change the names- even if you hear long time Harlemites say Mount Morris park- you can’t- Respect the man MARCUS GARVEY by saying what the city renamed the park in 1973. this blog owner fudges he names in his drummer video (but I like your blog obviously since I am spending a lot of fucking time venting here instead of updating my own shit) and pointed out that there are new condos using the old name. When new settlers come in and don’t even have the respect to call the places by their names-it shows the distain and disregard for the people who lived here in Harlem through the time no one cared. That goes for those in condos named after blacks, Harlem related names or black sounding names(which does not make sense since they are all European names-Langston, Douglass, Savoy, Ellington- say the fucking names ! (even though the developers use the names to get approval to get the fucking buildings built) they probably got an acronym or abbreviation ready to condition people to start saying it (the Lang, The El, etc) Anyway, save the fucking drums! Save Harlem! Stop the ethnic cleansing of Black businesses, the black population of Harlem and of the Black Harlem culture and traditions!

IF YOU HAVE TO LIVE HERE-LIVE AND LEAVE SHIT ALONE WHITE FOLKS - DAMN!(DIDN'T THE NATIVE AMERICAN SAY THAT TO YOU WHEN HE SAVED YOUR FREZZING STARVING ASSES STRAIGHT OFF THE MATYFLOWER IN THE WINTER?-TAKE FROM THE LAND BUT GIVE BACK-DID YOU LISTEN? HELL NO! WHAT DID YOU DO? MASSACRE,RAPE AND DESTROY-EVERYWHERE YOU GO!
SAVE THE DRUM CIRCLE - SAVE THE WORLD!

SOHA? South Harlem or
SETTLERS OUT of HARLEM'S ASS?

or STOP OVERBEARING HOSTILE ASSHOLES?

or better yet

STOP OUTSIDERS HOSTILE ASSAULT!!!! and

SAVE OUR HARLEM ACOUSTICS (DA FUCKING DRUMS!!!!)

This Saturday, July 7, 2007 at 12:30 p.m., a silent march down 125th Street, river to river in protest of what has been going on in the Black community and against Black people, other people of color and consciousness, i.e.,the Columbia University takeover plan, 125th Street River to River plan, the Sonny Carson street naming issue, the Viola Plummer lynching, police brutality: The Warren family, Sean Bell, etc., etc.,lack of respect in the Black Community, and infringement on our right
to self determination. It is the beginning of a Quiet Storm. And as
you know a storm is a storm once it gets here.

Convene at the pier on West 125th Street in the lot by the river and begin our walk on both sides of the street down toward Second Avenue.

AND THEN DOUBLE BACK AND SUPPORT THE DRUMMERS-

my god, drum defender, you are truly delusional. yesterday's "protest" was a joke! HA-HA! THE DRUMMERS WILL GO! AS IN "GO AWAY."
I am black, by the way. And I have lived in Harlem for 25 years. And the f&^*ing drummers have been getting on my nerves for all 25 years that I've lived here. Good riddance.

-Wow. "Drum Defender" knows how to drone on and on with a hate-filled run on sentence doesn't he/she?

-The only point I was trying to make with my family history was that the nature of New York is change. Neighborhoods turn over and change continually over time. 'ownership' of neighborhood by any one cultural/ethnic group is fleeting in NY; that's the way it is (ask the Dutch).

Yorkville used to be so German you didn't have to know English - all that changed.

Hell's Kitchen used to be Irish.

Has anyone seen what's left of Litte Italy lately?

-And on and on...

-As to your knee-jerk slavery diatribe, I'm sick and tired of "that old gag". If you were paying attention, you'll notice that my family moved from England (which was one of the first countries to outlaw slavery in Europe). We also came here after the Civil War (1880's). That leaves us out of your rape and pillage theory (at least as far as American slavery goes). We all have evil skeletons in our historical closets; that's reality. For instance, the African slaves were sold to the slave traders by other Africans (rival tribes); how can you be sure you're not related to some of those (rape and pillage indeed)?

-So your neighborhood is changing; get over it. Unlike previous neighborhood turnovers, I see allot of diversity in Harlem. There are people of all ethnic and cultural backrounds in my building, and we get along famously. But that's because we're mature adults and not hung up on little things like anger and petty hatred..

-I don't think you really care about the drums at all.. You simply want a medium to espouse your useless bigotry, and I have no use for that in my neighborhood.

I was at Marcus Garvey Park on June 30th when the cops were called due to the drumming. First thoughts were "damn here we go again. Then the white man came" An instituion for thirty years has to be disturbed by the same people who have traditionally and historically disturbed and destroyed cultures and traditions. Let the drumming continue!!!

i've been trying to stay out of this debate as it's obviously very sensitive on both sides but i cant keep quiet anymore. Crelmpro-i have to correct you. the drummers themselves admit that they moved once before when the building on the corner of 124th and Madison opened and those owners complained. those owners are almost completely African American and living in income restricted units. they contacted police and the parks department and a move was agreed to by the drummers. everyone is going on about respecting and understanding the history of the drummers but no on seems to know or care about that bit of history. i've seen this mentioned on uptown flavor but no one responds to this info. i guess it's a bit of an inconvenient truth.

“A village without music, is a dead village.”
- African Proverb

"Lawlessness is lawlessness. Anarchy is anarchy is anarchy. Neither race nor color nor frustration is an excuse for either lawlessness or anarchy."

-Thurgood Marshall, U.S. lawyer and Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court (1908-1993)

Man a caller mentioned this website on The Communicators talk show on the Harlem radio station WHCR or 90.3fm hwich is at City College and I am glad because it is all about HARLEM and Harlem people organizing, arguing and debating.This site is very unique and has great "land grab" discussions.

" A manhattan village with constant drumming 24/7 is in trouble if it wants to be taken seriously"

Getridoftheprojects

Okay! Two things:

1. I heard that the drummers had actually been moved before. Several years ago, they were closer to Madison Avenue and when Maple Court was built, the majority black owners there had issues with the noise and the drummers moved. Noise issue; not a race issue. Done.

2. A compromise was apparently reached and the drummers moved to a landing on the acropolis near the amphitheater. Seems like a good compromise to me. It has got to be quieter for the people they were across from and those who love their sounds can probably hear them better now.

WHEN THE AMPITHEATER IS BEING USED EVERYONE HAS TO CLIMB UP TO THE BELL TOWER.FUCKED UP FOR OUR SENIORS. I'M GOING TO WIRE THE PARK WITH THOSES STONE LOOKING SPEAKERS TO AMPLIFY THE DRUMS-FUCK 2002 FIFTH! bring your drums

Wow, Harlem Observer, you're just full of bluff and bluster, aren't you? How closely do you really observe Harlem? I only ask because the drummers picked the spots that they are going to use, together with the Parks Department (who is providing benches for the express purpose of their Saturday drumming). You may be upset, but they apparently are not.

So far as I have observed, the residents on all sides of the Park are now happy with the results - the drumming is truly in the "background" for all who live next to the park. The drummers get to drum to their hearts content on Saturdays. True, it's still in clear violation of the new noise laws, but everybody can now live in peace with them (including the black residents of Maple Court, who had them moved from in front of their building when they moved to the neighborhood). A win-win if I ever saw one.

Now, let's talk about something truly important to our community - safety in the Park and in the community in general? That's something that your bluff and bluster would be useful for! Oh, I guess I forgot - on uptownflavor, you just had a whole diatribe about how you supported community residents's homes being burglarized and individuals being robbed as they walked through Parks. (http://uptownflavor.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/drumming-up-trouble-in-the-park/#comment-18540) So why are we listening to anything you have to say?