Although I have no scientific data to back it up, I would bet money that Copelands has lost most of it's business due to the influx of Dominican and Mexican immigrants in the immediate area - people who would rather eat rice and beans and pork at the excellent Pan-Latino restaurants in the surrounding area.

When I heard the times article repeated yesterday morning on WNYC, I shook my head. One comment by a restaurant owner, repeated in The Times, then picked up by the other local media, and you have a gentrification urban legend with legs.

I live near Copelands and so far have seen 90% positive changes to the neighborhood. After four years I have only ever received positive, welcoming feelings from my neighbors, even though I am white and probably fall into the classic gentrifier stereotype. My neighbors who have lived in the area for generations and own their homes are very enthusiastic about the recent changes - new businesses opening, more services, less crime.

I'm sure the dynamic will change as gentrification accelerates, and their are definitely going to be losers in the equation, as people living on fixed incomes or without rent stabilization will see themselves priced out of their homes.

But let's be realistic about what's going on here, and try not to fan the flames with stories like "Copelands was forced out of business by the evil white gentrifiers!".

From the posts on Uptown Flavor, Curbed, and here, it seems that many (or perhaps just a vocal few) long time Harlemites feel that their community is beseiged by a cohesive group bent on pushing them out. I understand the anxiety, but I think that the characterization is completely inaccurate. This is simply the result of market forces pushing people to consider different options. I suspect that most of the newcomers are, like me, simply seeking a better standard of living than is available elsewhere. Their motivations are probably cheaper rent, larger spaces, proximity to work or other some other issue. (This is a generalization. I'm sure that there are some who have moved to Harlem simply because it is Harlem.) Suggesting that there's a conspiracy to push out African American culture or to push people out because they're African American creates harmful divisions and makes the debate racially charged--frequently to the point that dialogue is reduced to namecalling. The gentrification PROCESS in Harlem is not different than in other NYC neighborhoods. The process is no more racially motivated than the gentrification of Hells Kitchen. The difference is that Harlem has more meaning to more people than Hells Kitchen and those that are on the losing end generally belong to a racial group that has historically suffered disproportionately.

On your points & what you're not appreciating. Business owners & residents of Harlem 1950-2000 were deprived access to capital, the loan market, etc. Between redlining and warehousing, Harlemites were "conditioned". For residents renting became an accepted permanents dwelling acceptance with no expectation to own, business did not have to have the foresight of planning-expansion, etc. That capital markets did not exist for a great many people (redlining). Harlem business owners like M&G, Sylvias, the Morturary Companies, and even the professional servcies like the dentist, and realtors .The Record Shack, Copelands, etc. we originally capitalized on "Friends & Family" money. So this is the existence and mindset of that sector (long time Harlem Business).

2007 is a different world with different business models. A mom & pop Harlem diner now competes with a chain like Subway (who's costs reflect mass volume buying across the franchise, etc.). So old Harlem people are not able to even understand the dynamic of the market, it's no longer a closed "African American World" where we use exclusively cash. A lot of these business are not even able to accept credit or debit cards. I just tried to visit Copelands website to see how their on-line presence-model was set up but it seems down now.

Anyway there is a lot of hard feelings and bitterness from the Record Shack, Copelands, M&G, the older Harlem business sector that operated in a ghetto model for 30, 40, 50 years and suddendly have to compete in a '07 model serving a diverse culture.

Even with Real Estate, Willie Suggs and the couple of other Black folks that have been in Harlem forever have expressed bitterness from now having to compete with Manhattan mainstream, they have, it's been published. Carver too has verbally expressed bitterness when they too were the only Bank on 125th, only 10 years ago folks - now having to compete. Some of the old Harlem businesses have been able to adjust with the New Harlem, some have not changed their old world model and ways of thinking.

Let me give you another example that might better communicate things. For decades Black Harlem could not rely on Police protection. It simply did not exist, the NYPD's posture toward Black on Black crime was "back burnered", no or low priority. This was a conditioning that took root in Harlem. The result? You may not know this but a very high number of very fine law obiding citizens, people that have jobs, go to work, raise their kids, pay their taxes, a high percentage of Middle Class Historic Harlem sleeps with a shot gun underneath their bed. It's not uncommon at all to find a Harlem resident who resided here in the '60, 70's, etc. and still does today to have a shot gun or gun of some sort right under their bed, likely unregistered and illegal. Not the point. The conditioning of the Harlem these people experienced for decades has framed their mindset, their thinking, their psychology to maintain a behavior. My telling these people "it's a new and different day" is not going to outweigh their 30 or 40 years of conditioning.

The Record Shop and Copelands men are not capable of understanding a business model for their trade and market today. Their mindsets are far too conditioned, you can see it in the speech and excuses of the Copeland's guy. They're simple people. I am not being critical, just saying they're simple people. They want things the way they used to be, Harlem 1960, 1970 etc. They're frustrated, bitter, and that's what you're seeing playing out. That whole game has changed on them and it's hard for them to cope with it.

You can't be a simply person/business owner in '07 in any nabe. You example of Tower & CBGB are bad examples, yes personally know the owner of CBGB's and Hilley Krystal is one cheap bastard who is going to brand CBGB's in Vegas and make a ton of money, another point. They're bad examples because they had access to capital markets through their existence. The bitterness, affront is a product of the enormity of it all, the whole context. Institutional racism produced a mindset, maintaining that mindset = going out of business.

Now none of what I am saying excuses the Copelands or Record Shack guy, I am just trying to get the White people to better understand what you are seeing play out. It's far deeper than a cursory glance and draw conclusions. Again, just like you can't make an initial judgment of a person who today sleeps with a shot gun under their bed. Had you lived in the Harlem of the 60's, 70's and much of the 80's, you would then understand it. You don't have to agree with it, but you would understand what it's a product of.

Big Box store comes to small town, wipes out all the small town businesses, many family business and you hear a whole lot of bitterness. Very common in White middle America.

11:14--Thanks for the point of view. It's certainly thought-provoking. Institution racism has been well documented in the 60's, 70's & 80's, and I suspect that you're right that it and other factors have conditioned long time Harlemites into a certain mindset. (The cashier at Fine Fare always seems surprised when I use a credit card. They also check my ID, which never happens below 110th St.) I also think that the small town America analogy is particularly apt. I'm empathetic to the situation. Bitterness is a natural reaction. (I was bitter when I couldn't afford an appropriately sized apartment Downtown.) However, none of this suggests that the current gentrification of Harlem is personally motivated (i.e., based on the characteristics of the individual, such as race). In fact, like the changes in small town America, it's about economic forces. People are bitter. I understand that. It's a natural reaction and, perhaps, a justified one given the historical forces that you site. Yet, this is not going to help those trying to deal with the effects of gentrification nor is the characterization of gentrification as a personal (racial) attack.

11:14---thank you for that. i can only see things through my own eyes but you have provided a well laid out explanation of another perspective, and i appreciate you taking the time to do so in a respectful and thoughtful way.

i wonder, now that we (white people) are here (in small numbers, still) what can we do? is there anything? i have been to copelands once, but it's over 20 blocks from my home, so i never made it back. i try to hit up the local places near me, but i don’t eat out much (never did) and work downtown.

it's so different to be living someplace where these things are thought about and discussed in this way. it's never been that way for me, and i've lived in gentrifying areas in the city my whole 10+ years here. i think that history and special place that Harlem holds for African Americans, and the history of activism, means that people are much more conscious of what is happening, and much quicker to get defensive, upset, angry about the change that is occurring. and i think that the differences are perceived to be race based (white skin = new comer, black skin = belongs). the truth, as we all know it, is that the difference is economics.

the irony is that many of the white people moving to Harlem (especially the young people) are in the same financial boat as many of the long time residents of Harlem. they are moving here because lower Manhattan has become unlivable unless you are the richest of the rich.

then they move up here, and they are hated for being a "rich white newcomer". it's ironic, and im sure many of them are very uncomfortable with this label. they soon too will be forced out by rising rents, to queens, i guess.

The only counter argument I’d like to provide is that in New York City, the number of people who own is about %25 of the population. The renting mentality is pervasive throughout this city. Renting has always been the norm. this is not a unique to Harlem phenomenon.

Blake said, "Suggesting that there's a conspiracy to push out African American culture or to push people out because they're African American creates harmful divisions and makes the debate racially charged--frequently to the point that dialogue is reduced to namecalling. The gentrification PROCESS in Harlem is not different than in other NYC neighborhoods".
_

What you don't understand Black is America has a long list of conspiracies that targeted African-Americans, like Tuskegee, Organized Institutional Redlining, Warehousing, etc. There is also lots of scholarly work demonstrating the Government allowing the crack to take over Black nabes and in the 60's for drugs to flow in Harlem. All of this is well known, researched, and documented.

So on it's face, charging "Conspiracy" is not something without reason and worth taking a look at due to the history of actual conspiracies targeting African-Americans & Harlem. Due to the history, it can't be dismissed.

For example, it's well known the Real Estate industry CONSPIRED for decades to steer clear away from Harlem & keep the market compressed below 96th St.

Furthermore it IS different than other neighborhoods. Again, you lack knowledge of history. Lots of Black people with cash in hand could not buy buildings in Harlem, the White owners would not sell to the Black person, there are cases of this and a lot of the people who's money was turned away are still very much here with us. This happened. This did not happen in other nabes. Warehousing & refusing to sell buildings to Black people with cash in hand was no infrequent in Harlem.

I am not saying yes, there is a conspiracy. I am saying you cannot dismiss anyone making the charge as not having any foundation, there is lots of foundation to make the charge.

Note I am a well educated financially secure African-American and live in Harlem. The police presence now in Harlem is unbelievable, truly unreal (if you have perspective and were here in the '80 and early '90's.) Now you tell me, when Lenox Ave was 99.9% Black pedestrians 24/7 I could walk for 10 blocks and not see a cop. I'm talking '80's and to the early 90's. Today? I often see a cop on every corner on both sides of the street. Now the NYPD was not there for me when Lenox Ave was 99.9% Black pedestrians. Today there's a whole lot of White and Other people. What changed?
Why the Poiice presence now, today, on an order and to a magnitude that's TEN-FOLD of what it used to be when it was just about all Black? What changed?

I'm not complaining, just making the point. If someone said to me the cops are now here because the White people are now here - history dictates that I can't dismiss that as an out of hand opinion. It's rather short sighted on your part to dismiss anyone charging "conspiracy". Again, I am not saying their is, however there's ample foundation for the person that does charge conspiracy.

For example, the Real Estate Industry right now is CONSPIRING to target Churches and their land and doing joint development deals. 5th on Mad/Rhapsody/Absyn/TheLenox, there is some financial perks, tax things going on in this marraiges wherein everybody wins and I bet tax exposure in some way is reduced. You don't see this coupling in other nabes like this. It's unique to Harlem. Now there are a lot of Churches in Harlem with prime land, however I am betting there is some added value or benefit of somekind in these deals that does not exploit anyone by the State (tax wise) and perhaps in some funding perks.

True gentrification wont happen on Lenox Avenue because of the massive projects and the abundance of churches on every block. It seems that unlike Chicago and some other cities, NYC is hell bent on keeping these failed projects intact.

Speaking to many longtime Harlem Black residents - there is a huge difference between people with low income and "project people." This project system has failed these people and has created a mentality of self destruction and the destruction of the immediate area. The city government needs to destroy these projects and create mixed use housing so that these long time Harlem residents will have a chance to be apart of the dynamic changes that are happening all over the place except for Lenox Ave... Yes, there are new buildings there, but without proper services to serve these and other buildings, the area really is still quite stagnant.

There are only 2 or 3 restaurants from 116th to 125th street....Is that gentrification??? I don't think so... The 672 churches between these blocks won't allow for restaurant owners to get liquor licenses.. This is also holding the neighborhood back as well. Who is attending all of these churches? They just seem to cause traffic jams by double and triple parking and the police won't do anything about it because this is Harlem and it is somehow allowed here where it is not allowed anywhere else.

If Harlem really is going to be changed, then people have to change their mentality and play by the rules otherwise it will still be the same old neighborhood with a couple of shiny new buildings. In other words, I really don't believe there really wont be true gentrification of this part of Harlem until there is are true changes in behavior, destroying the MASSIVE projects and codes to allow for restaurants to make the neighborhood thrive.

GET RID OF THE PROJECTS!!!!

Very cool and thoughtful post. I work in the media, and the golden rule is always make a story personal by finding someone that is affected by larger issues. While this sells newspapers (or in my case magazines), the reality is that most forces are external as you say. Sure individual people are affected (sometimes positively, sometimes negatively), but the reality is these are large-scale changes that are consciously designed to target the little guy shop owners. Unfortunately the news media has to make it personal because frankly no one will read a dry piece about market forces without some sort of human interest angle. I'm not sure how to "fix" this problem, but that's why the Times quoted the owner of the Copeland and why the story has gotten so much coverage.

11:56, you sound reasoned. However, on the very last paragraph, I would phrase it a little differently. First, I don't think there is a conspiracy of any kind. Some developers have happened upon a formula that works and therefore, they're going after it. Do you think those developers talk to each other and conspire to approach more churches? I don't think so.

Second, Harlem has a lot of churches. It makes some sense that Harlem has seen more of this type of development. However, this is not the only place this type of development has happened. Check out the developments on the Upper West Side that have used church air rights and land. Check out the St. Johns the Divine development. Also, though longer ago, the Citibank Building on 54th did a development with a church.

Just wanted to point that out. No conspiracy on church developments - it just makes sense for churches and developers who, yes I'm sure, get favorable tax benefits from it.

This is 10:57 (not Blake). I do understand that list. I'm differentiating between the factors that caused Harlem to become what it was prior to gentrification (which appear to be influenced by race) and the mindset that it produced, and the factors creating the current gentrification process, which I do not see as racially based. In fact, one could say that Harlem is gentrifying despite race. I suspect that if Harlem were a Polish neighborhood, gentrification would have already occurred or would be occurring at a faster pace.

Regarding churches, I do see it happening in other neighborhoods. Take the Church near Washington Square for example. What I don't see in other neighborhoods is the concentration of churches that exists in Harlem, many of which are lightly attended. Given the shear volume of churches and the fact that a church leader or congregation can sell to a developer without dealing with rent stabilized or rent controlled tenants, I don't see this as a sign of a racial conspiracy. Money is flowing to the properties that are easiest to develop--empty lots and churches.

The lack of police protection in the past is certainly unfortunate and unfair, and I don't know what it must have been like to live in such a place. However, I didn't ask for police protection to be stepped up in Harlem. Has it increased because I'm here? Perhaps. But this can also be attributed to the increasing affluence of the area (which I'm not justifying it, by the way).

Historical race based practices may have created a situation and mindset in Harlem--a mindset that sees conspiracies--but I just don't think that the current gentrification process is targeting a traditionally African American or African American individuals because it or they are African American. It's occurring because Harlem is located on Manhattan Island with close proximity to transportation and parks.

11:14 & 11:56 -

I'm a white guy who moved to W Harlem just two months ago, and I've been struggling to figure out how to think about gentrification in Harlem. I mean, I knew that it was a big, real problem for a lot of folks, but I also felt like Harlemites were too quick to see a conspiracy or racism just because it's Harlem and not Greenpoint or something. Your posts helped me see the big picture a lot better, even if I'm still confused. Thank you.

>Historical race based practices may have created a situation and mindset in Harlem--a mindset that sees conspiracies--but I just don't think that the current gentrification process is targeting a traditionally African American or African American individuals because it or they are African American.
_

Now I shall illustrate "White Ignorance" Landlords like Pinnacle (one of the many examples I can offer), have ZERO foundations of evictions against tenants they're aiming to uproot and evict that are Black, in Harlem, in rent stab apts that they want to de-control. The strategy of the landlord is to target and attack people that can't defend themselves, can't afford to defend themselves, and or can't take the stress and pressure of litigation.

It's about strategy, not legitimacy, not law, pure strategy. You can't assume people have $3,000 cash for a retainer for a decent lawyer, you can't assume elderly can undergo the stress and pressure of hold-over case - litigation, you can't say how much stress and pressure a landlord can put on a tenant, turn the screws on a tenant. These free legal aid organizations are not always the answer for these attacks and lastly, it works, it's about percentages when a large landlord is seeking to evict 300 - 500 people.

This practice is commonplace in Harlem. You can educated yourself by walking to the Housing Court on 121st just below Lex and watch with your own eyes, listen with your own ears some of the total BS cases tenants are having to defend. When you have a rent stab apartment, with every new lease the landlord runs your SS# through a nation wide data base, if your name pops up owning a property, or a car in another state and at another address, that's all a landlord needs to trigger an attempt to try and evict you. This happened to me. It was deemed by my landlord I was guilty before, the landlord hauled me into court and asserted I lived at 1 of the 3 addresses (3 properties I own out of state, 1 of them is land with no structure of any kind on it too) and I summarily had to respond to an eviction proceeding. I prevailed but it took about 10 hours out of my life and I knew what I was doing. But I was just 1 in the net of hundreds.

Landlords "throw a net" knowing before the fact they have no legitimate case however there's always the chance a tenant cannot defend themselves and or have the resources to defend themselves. If you think it's a matter of simply going to court and showing some records, you are 100% wrong. Fear, intimidation, all these tactics are used to uproot and decontrol an apartment. You can go to tenent.net right now and ask the question if Blacks are targeted in this context, you will see many tenants attorney's will tell "of course".

At tenent.net you can very Blacks are targeted strategically for eviction in Harlem all the time as they are viewed as possibly not being able to muster a defense. I've been sued tons of times & sued a dozen plus times in my professional life, legal actions are not about right v. wrong, their about "strategy", inundating the other side strategically and forcing an outcome toward your interest.

Try to evict a target population base, throw the net, and then work the numbers. This reality that you can verify at tenant.net and with tenants attorney's illustrates your statement is invalid and you are ignorant (no offense, you simply lack real world knowledge of what's happening).

White people are supposed to be smart right? Predatory practices target Black Communities ALL THE TIME. 1) Lending, 2) Credit Cards BS, 3) Same Day Check Loans - Check Cashing etc. I could go on and on, and I am sure you will agree, you have to this is common knowledge.

Why is it such a leap for you to also see that maybe, just maybe the Landlord Eviction Business (and it is a cottage industry of it's own), why can't you also believe that this same PREDATORY PATTERN takes place on Blacks? Your statement simply illustrates you are profoundly ignorant, it's that simple. I'm Black, I've lived here a while, move and flow in the community, could tell you about stories all day.

I'll give you one real world example of this happening in Harlem, Delanore Village, now named with Gentrification "Savoy Gardens", Predatory baseless evictions were rampant over '05 & '06. Again just so we're clear, my statement there are Blacks in Harlem that have been the target of predatory reckless & baseless evictions precisely because they have a rent stab apart and were profiled by the landlord (because they are Black) that they might not have the resources and where-with-all to defend a legal action. It's not as simple as walking into a court, landlords are simply trying to work numbers, you can verify all my points at tenent.net or just Google it.

BTW, this is what annoys Black people. You get some White person declaring my condition and reality as a Black person and Harlemite. This White person believes they are right, accurate, and their words are valid. They're not and I believe I've clearly, indisputably illustrated an ignorant person. Please, for your own sake, educate yourself just a little before you start telling me about my condition in Harlem. One love - put good gracious.
http://www.indypressny.org/article.php3?ArticleID=2578

2:46-There's quite a bit in your post, all of which I suspect is accurate. The predatory behaviour is, of course, not limited to African Americans or African American neighborhoods. In all of that which you post, the key point you make, I think, is that people in Harlem are not just targeted by disreputable developers because they've historically been less affluent and have less access to the means to defend themselves, but that they're targeted BECAUSE they're black. This is the first point that I've heard in this thread (or the others that have come before it) actually supporting the argument that gentrification in Harlem is at least to some degree raced based. Of course, the practices of Pinnacle and others like them are despicable whether they're racially motivated or not and, I suspect, the vast majority of the newcomers find them reprehensible. The question then becomes whether this practice is widespread or isolated. Most of the developments that I'm familiar with have risen on empty lots or unoccupied buildings. Thus, I'm curious whether this practice has had a substantial effect on gentrification.

Regarding your final point about "what annoys Black people," remember that there are two sides to that coin. From my perspective, I'm not trying and I don't want to define your condition. I'm addressing my motivations and describing the context in which I think that I'm acting. It's annoying to me to read that I want to destroy someone's culture, that I'm evil, etc.--all the posts that ostensibly define my condition. I'm not Pinnacle. I don't live in a development created from pushing people out. I don't want African American businesses or people removed, and I don't want to wipe the neighborhood clean of any distinguishing characteristics. I don't tie damsels to railroad tracks, and I don't throw banana peels outside of the old folks home. I just want to live in a safe, clean neighborhood where I can get to know my neighbors and the proprietors of the local establishments. For the most part, the posts that I read from newcomers use terms like "I think," or "I suspect" rather than declaring that their view is definitive. For example, the first words in this thread are " Although I have no scientific data to back it up, I would bet money that." This is hardly declaring that one view is absolutely correct. Contrast this with your words, "This White person believes they are right, accurate, and their words are valid. They're not and I believe I've clearly, indisputably illustrated an ignorant person." In a context where the frequent response to a newcomer post is that they are being arrogant or disrespectful, your words strike me as arrogant and disrespectful. However, I also find your post thought-provoking and understand that you're addressing a subject about which you're passionate. Rather than become offended by the frequent references to my ingorance, I'm increasing my knowledge. I wish others would do the same.

I live around the corner from Copeland's, and frequent the other restaurants in my neighborhood. I've been to Copeland's once, and never went back. Why? Because I had a horrible experience there. The food was awful, the service worse, and the music was so loud you couldn't hear anything. That's why it's closing, not some racially motivated conspiracy to keep Mr. Copeland down.

4:21, as a new (and white) resident of Harlem, I too plan on doing my best to try and learn something from people like 2:46, while ignoring their presumptuous and rude remarks. It's a shame, however, that we need to sift through insults to gain some understanding.

I too struggle with figuring out how to be a responsible neighbor when it seems like everyone around me is inclined to see me as just a rich white woman ruining their neighborhood. This is of course extremely far from accurate, and I hope that my informal conversations with people I see and meet in the neighborhood help break down some of those stereotypes that we all have.

I came across this page on gentrification recently and thought that it was a nice approach to thinking about the issue from the perspective of people who are being accused of wrecking neighborhoods: http://www.neighborsproject.org/pages/gentrification/3.php

I'm glad you put up this post.

I recently moved to Harlem. Sorry people but I don't feel like I have to justify living in harlem in any way. I feel I should have the right to live where I choose without feeling guilty. Dont' feel like I have to sympathize with long time Harlem residents under any conditions just because I'm a hard working person who've saved up enough money to buy and still have some left over to splurge. Harlem doesn't belong to Blacks. Just as Chinatown doesn't belong to Asians. People should be free to live where they want. Unfortunately, it's survival of the fittest. This is America. If you can't afford to live in a place, you have to leave. You go where you can afford it. You don't stay and blame everybody else for your mishaps. Too bad you didn't save and bust your butts hard enough. Why should people like me have to sit here and "figure out how to be a responsible neighbor" to those who are just jealous and perhaps racist. If you don't like it, maybe you can start hustling to get the money to live comfortably. I work for mine, so go work for yours. Don't just sit there and think the world owes you something.

-Amen brother..

More White ignorance, arrogance and pompous speech. You White people just don't get it do you?

"I feel I should have the right to live where I choose without feeling guilty".

"I'm a hard working person who've saved up enough money to buy"

"People should be free to live where they want".

"Unfortunately, it's survival of the fittest. This is America. If you can't afford to live in a place, you have to leave. You go where you can afford it. You don't stay and blame everybody else for your mishaps. Too bad you didn't save and bust your butts hard enough".

Do you White people see these quotes? White people are so stupid, by and large, they can't see Black people for decades were not allowed such liberties as what this ignotant, arrogant, pompous White person is saying.

A Black person reads this and knows how many Blacks were denied the right to buy (but ignorant White speech is blind of that), Live where you choose? They burned crosses on our lawns for doing that, harassed and abused use for exercising that little statement of yours,

Why are Black angry and mad? Read this person's statements through the experience of a 65 year old Black person who's lived by force a totally different experience. That's why we're angry and mad, this White person says these grand and sweeping statements as if everyone had a fair shot at a job, loans, mortgages, ownership. This is not that case and only the truly ignorant, really just flat out dumb White people speak like this.

It's insulting and degrading to Black people to use such speech because we were denied these grand statements of this White person, this White person thinks it's been a fair and square playing field for everyone.

Whan a Black person breaks and goes postal and simply shoots down a White person in Harlem, or a group of White people Colin Ferguson style, it will be tragic, but understand White people, it's going to be a result of a Black person no longer being able to take the arrogant, ignorant, and pompous speech of a White person.

It's not going to be right, of course not. It's just going to happen. The worse thing you can do to a person is deny them their reality. Telling a Jew the Holocaust never happend is insulting. Telling women there are not sexually verbally harassed by men, often contstuction workers making cat calls is insulting. Telling arabs they are not looked at twice as suspect at airports is insulting, denying a person's reality is insulting, and for this White person to use these words and act as if Black have had a fair shake at ownership in Harlem is insulting.

But lots of White people are truly simply too ignorant to see their ignorance, they view the world through their paradigm of experience and apply that template to others. A typical White man thinks White woman on Wall St. and in the Corporate board rooms are treated fair and the same, nonsense.

On day a Black man in Harlem is going to snap from one more deposit of White Ignorance. He might smash a brick in a White person head, he might shoot some people point blank, but there are a lot of very insulting White people, tremendously ignorant, and there are a lot of Black people ready to go postal. It's a caustic coupling, it's going to happen sooner or later, unfortunately. It's not right, it's just What happens, people snap, two-way ignorance you might call it.

I wish the more enlightened White people would should your fellow White people their own ignorance, I am getting tired of illustrating it for everyone.

>>Live where you choose? They burned crosses on our lawns for doing that

Anonymous, 1:56pm, I understand your point, but let's not overblow things. You had a yard? In NYC? That had a cross burning on it? Not to take away from the seriousness of that happening in parts of the south four decades ago (and mostly before that), but really...

And let's not wrap ourselves in the "I know everything" blanket and call everyone else "ignorant" because you don't agree with their viewpoint. Maybe it's an educated viewpoint and maybe it's not. But to paraphrase another poster - most people are willing to be educated on a point, but not sift through insults to get there...

...and maybe you should have an open enough mind (since that's what you're demanding of others) to listen and try to understand where other folks are coming from instead of dismissing everything as "ignorant" and then quasi-condoning violence in the streets...

Let’s be real and tell the whole story about blacks being denied ownership in Harlem.

It has been documented on these boards, there where programs for local ownership of Brownstones when they could be bought for $50,000 or less. These programs had loans, yes, loans where available through programs to encourage local ownership in Harlem, this has been documented on these boards.

Another sad and telling fact, many local people did not take advantage of these programs and opportunities went unfulfilled, people where encouraged to take ownership of Harlem but did not follow through.

There was a time when brownstones could be bought for a dollar from the city, when for white people, Harlem was a no go area. What a spectacular missed opportunity for blacks to take ownership of Harlem, to fix up and make good these beautiful streets.

This is a part of Harlem’s history, a lot of people know this but choose to deny these facts.

Some people choose to cherry pick their history.

A nation that forgets its history is disabled in dealing with the present and the future, Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.

Anonymous 1:56: FYI, I am ASIAN and FEMALE and SINGLE. My family immigrated to America without any money. Through HARD WORK, we managed to SLOWLY improve our standard of living. I was taught to get an EDUCATION, get a JOB and WORK hard. Doing so, I was able to save money and buy me a home. Sure, there were times that my male co-workers made more than me. I've been harrassed many times. But you know what...I don't sit there and think about all the injustices in the world. Doing so would just be a waste of time. Instead, I bust my butt a little harder. And guess what??!!?? I now own something while my male co-workers are still renting because they can't seem to save up enough to make the down payment. Now WHO'S BETTER THAN ME???

You can continue to sit there and blame what might have happened to your ancestors if you want. It's just a lame excuse. NOBODY is keeping YOU from buying or owning anything now. The only thing preventing people from owning now is their laziness and their "the world owes me" mentality. Not to mention the "ghetto" mentality of "smashing" and "shooting" a person. Grow up people.

Saying that Blacks were denied the rights to own is a bunch of crap. My ex landlord was a Black man who owned more than a dozen throughout the city. What happened to him? He's definitely
Black. I can't see an inkling of White in him so I can't say that he was favored over others. How do you explain that.

I think you're the one that's ignorant. You gotta stop the filthy mentality. Just work hard and it will pay off some day. I'm living proof of it. I'm not White. I'm Asian. I'm Female.

Mr. Trump once stated that Manhattan would only be reserved for the rich "the whole island". One of the former mayor once said that no BLACKS would live below 110th St., i grew up in Harlem and watch the new era that is taking place. It's bad and good for Harlem. I've seen it go from the 60's with Jewish merchant to Arabs, from Nicky Barnes controll to the new Nazi controll. What Blacks fail to realize is that there is a New World Order set in place.